[Cathédrale de la Rose]~Livre Rose was a publication by Malice Mizer that included photoshoots showing their recent looks of their 3 single series and album, as well as interviews about the process, making, creation and completion of the show "Bara ni Irodorareta Akui to Higeki no Makuake" (薔薇に彩られた悪意と悲劇の幕開け) at the Budokan. I will try to translate all interviews in the book in order, as they not only interview the members, but also the production team members that helped the group realize their vision from the stage design, construction and lighting to the costume designer that worked with them to make the concept come to life, for a full backstage view of what it was to make the biggest stage ever made at the Budokan a reality.
For those interested in the physical material, Livre Rose and Livre Rose~Blanche are the same photo book with the same written contents and interviews, but Livre Rose was the first edition and usually comes in a velvet box with a serial numbered cross necklace, and Livre Rose~Blanche is a re-printing that has an additional photo shoot with the wedding like costumes.
This first chapter is an interview with Mana, who was the main concept creator for Bara no Seidou and also the editor of the Livre Rose.
(Note* : I believe most would be familiar but when they are discussing the 3 parts of the show/costumes/concept, the 1st part was the Saikai no Chi to Bara costumes (EGL/Gothic), the 2nd part was the PVC and braids costumes, and 3rd part Shiroi Hada ni Kuruu Ai to Kanashimi no Rondo more historical inspired costumes with white lace)
Cathedrale de la Rose
First Interview - Mana Sama
Construction Trajectory of the “Cathedral of Roses”
August 31 and September 1st, 2000.
On August 31 and September 1st, 2000, the "Cathedral of Roses" appeared at the Nippon Budokan. The following two episodes will trace the path of the largest and most fantastic set building ever made in the Budokan's history until its inauguration. The first story is about Mana, the total concept director of the "Cathedral of Roses”. The second story will be a three-way conversation between Mana, stage producer Mr. Asano, and concert producer Mr. Ito.
The Untold Story of Creation - Part 1
Mana様
—- When did you start planning Bara no Seidou ?
Mana : Around the spring of ‘99. April to May.
—- Did you already have a picture of the Budokan in your mind at that time ?
Mana : I had a faint idea. I already had the image of a cathedral per say. When I released "Saikai no Chi to Bara" I had decided to make a trilogy, with a three-part live show. Conceptually, I had in mind "the visible world" for the first act and "the spiritual world" for the second act.
—- Why a “Cathedral” ?
Mana : Malice Mizer had a "Gothic philosophy" the roots of which are found in Gothic architecture. I felt that Gothic architecture had a strong link with Malice Mizer’s expression, and I wanted to materialize it. In order to achieve this, the music had to be based on the image of a "cathedral," and bright pop music had to be eliminated. I had never been able to do that before, but this time I was able to thoroughly explore the idea. Since this is the fundamental idea within me, it is the place where I can go back to the starting point and express myself the most.
—-I had the feeling that it was a "throwback to the old days" similar to the Nippon Seinenkan.
Mana : That's right. The "cathedral" is a concept that requires a bit of time and a lot of thought, so this was the only time we could produce it.
—- In a sense, it was the first and the last.
Mana : Right. Bara no Seidou could only be for the Budokan.
— You had the idea in your mind first, and then you released the album. Did you unify the costumes and everything else in the same "cathedral" style?
Mana : I don't know if the second part (*of the show) is a "cathedral type" or not, but it’s a spiritual world, so we had costumes that represent the inner world of human beings. People are restrained, and from there they move toward awakening. The restrained costumes are meant to express the idea that a person's desire is restrained, and when he sees light from afar, he will be liberated.
—-What is the meaning behind the costumes of the first part ?
Mana : It was a “cathedral that appeared in the pitch blackness” (*1). We were "ourselves in the darkness" there. That's why we were all dressed in velvet. Velvet is said to mean "jet black”.
(*1 : Those are the first lyrics of the Seinaru Toki Eien no Inori song, (漆黒の闇に浮かぶこの大聖堂, literally "cathedral that appeared in the pitch black darkness") which was the first song after the instrumental opening at the show, as well as on the Bara no Seidou album)
—-And what about the 3rd part ?
Mana : The third part is called "the one toward a new future". The third part was meant to be a reunion with new blood and a move toward a new future with the third single, "Rondo” (*Shiroi Hada…). The costumes for the third part are the closest to reality. The scene in the room where the "reunion" (*Saikai no Chi to Bara) began is a symbol of the place where all the blood relatives are. It is the place in everyone's memory where the “promise was made in the middle of the night” ( literally “Mayonaka ni Kawashita Yakusoku”). The reunion at the Budokan is the second reunion for us. With that memory still enclosed in our hearts, the "Cathedral of Roses" (*Bara no Seidou) will appear this time. I hope that this will awaken those memories. People with those memories will be drawn to the Budokan. That is what it means to be "led by the rose”. By gathering at the "Cathedral of Roses," the memories of the blood relatives will be revived once again, and there they will be reunited forever.
Mana : I think it was around June when I started working on the Budokan. Before that, I had already done a lot of storyboards for PVs, etc. I drew a lot of bits and pieces of images.
—- Was it then that you communicated your desire for a “Rose window” to the staff ?
Mana : Yes, that's right. The rose window is the most important part of Gothic architecture. The light shining through the rose window into the chapel is called "holy light”. In Gothic architecture, the rose window is a space that leads to heaven. The idea was to create a three-dimensional version of the cathedral for the album jacket, but the jacket had not been completed by May, so I just drew an image of the cathedral. That was the cathedral in its initial stage. The specifications were a little different from what they are now. But the theme of "three arches" and "rose window" were absolutely certain.
—-Why are there 3 arches ?
Mana : I wanted to express the will of each individual in the three arches.
—-What about Klaha ?
Mana : Klaha is the central figure in terms of fusion, and since there is a "rose window" in terms of concept, Klaha could be the "rose window”. At first, we didn't plan to have people standing at the "rose window," but after talking with the staff, we decided to do so. The bell towers on both sides were originally supposed to be on the second floor in the auditorium.
—- That’s pretty incredible. Besides that, did you have any other ideas that were different from the final Budokan?
Mana : The underground section (*I believe he means the lowest part of the stage, where they mostly played while in the PVC costumes, under the main level) was not supposed to be straight, but more like a cutout, a rough and uneven shape, which would not be possible on a normal stage. The stage itself has an unusual slope.
—-Seems like it’d be impossible to move on that stage with those costumes and shoes…
Mana : Yeah, pretty dangerous (laughs). There were also supposed to be stairs on both sides.
—-So the set also had a specific meaning ?
Mana : In the beginning, the plan was to go back and forth between above and below “ground”. We had a plan to have a girl flying from the bell tower into the darkness of the night. There was also the idea of a girl in white flapping her wings and disappearing into the sky.
—-What went wrong with that plan, was it a budgeting issue ?
Mana : Rather, as the image was refined, there are some things that were no longer necessary. There are other ways of expressing the image. So as the story was developed, the unnecessary parts were eliminated and only what was truly necessary remained.
—- How much trial and error went into the finalized form ?
Mana : Quite a bit. 4, 5, 6 times…
—- Each time, Mr. Aso would draw a blueprint ?
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| A stage blueprint from the book |
Mana : After talking with Mr. Asano once, I drew a rough sketch and gradually developed an image. But this time, we had to wait until the very last minute for Mr. Asano's drawings to come back to us. Until then, I had been thinking about the concept based on my drawings, but they were freehand drawings, so they didn't seem realistic, and there were some parts that didn't make sense as a design. Then, they were cleaned up and finished. I would see differences between what I had drawn and what Mr. Asano had drawn, and I would say, "I was going to use that one idea, but now it's gone!” (laughs)
—- At that point, had you already decided on the stage movement as well?
Mana : I decided on all the actions and standing positions. At that time, I always carried around a "formation notebook" that showed all the positions for live performances. I was always thinking about it, so I carried a notebook with me. In addition to formations, I was also working on an album at the time, so I would write down all the necessary words and lyrics. For each song, I drew all the standing positions and the timing of the movements. It was my "Bara no Seidou Journal”. I would picture the stages in my mind as I worked on them. I always simulate the image by myself. I also think of the choreography accordingly. When I am rehearsing in the studio, I am thinking about formations. I think about where to move from and to where, and I think about the balance while looking in the mirror, and it is very detailed. At home, I think roughly about the formation with the stage in mind, but when I go to the studio, I go into more detail by having the members actually move. Then, while recording the video, I think about the formation. The rest of the time, I think about it while playing and moving around in the studio. I play and wander around.
—- How do you come up with choreography ? In front of a mirror ?
Mana : Not in front of a mirror, no. I do the final check in front of the mirror, though. I naturally have an idea of how I want to move. I think about what kind of movement will best convey the lyrics.
—-Who is the best at remembering the choreography correctly ?
Mana : Well that’s hard to say (laugh) Even if everyone dances the same way, each of us has his own peculiarities. So it is hard to say who is the best dancer.
—- How are the other members doing in the rehearsal studio ?
Mana : Közi was very serious about creating the guitar sound. He was trying to find the right balance between his guitar and my guitar, and we were experimenting a lot with the tone. Also, this time he had a lot of vocal parts, so I think he was under a lot of pressure because he had a big role to lead as a front man. However, he was able to pull it off and I thought he did it well. Yu~ki was always wearing headphones and silently playing the bass guitar or tinkering with effectors. But for some reason, once I suddenly noticed him, he was huddled in a corner with his shirt off, on the ground, playing strangely. Klaha was always studying in front of the mirror. Even when everyone else was resting, he was checking the monitors and practicing his movements. In his case, he had to perform on a big stage out of the blue, so he had to absorb a lot of things in such a short period of time, and I think it was very difficult for him. I think he had the least amount of sleep among the members. But I thought it was very brave of him to go forward on the big stage of Budokan without a single weak word. I was also nervous because this was the first time for me to try to use my voice in a live performance. But I used a pitch changer to raise and lower my voice by several octaves, so it wasn't my natural voice anymore (laughs).
—- So you had to do a lot of things all at the same time, right.
Mana : There’s always something to think about. …Also, the white monks coming out in the middle and going down into the audience. I was worried about that until the end. I had decided early on that the monks would go down into the audience, but I was struggling until the very end to make it the best it could be.
—- Was there anything else you had trouble with ?
Mana : At first, I thought there would be three coffins and that we would need about 60 extras or so (laughs). We auditioned girls and planned to have them appear and come from on stage as well as in the audience. But it wasn't necessary for the story, and we knew we could do it with the actual number of people we already had.
—- There was only one girl in the audience, in the end, right. Going back to the set, there are some things you wanted to do but lost for various reasons, aren't there?
Mana : At first, there was talk of hanging a huge curtain over the stage set. We wanted the audience to not be able to see anything when they came in. We wanted to leave the audience in a state where they could not see what was there, and then, with the help of the lights, they could see the cathedral little by little.
—-And why wasn’t there one in the end ?
Mana : In reality, it was next to impossible. The other thing I really wanted to do was pillars of fire (pyrotechnics). I really wanted to have them. In "Kyomu" I put in the sound of a bang, so I was making the song with that image in mind. I wanted it to sound like an explosion. In the PV, it's the moment when the glass breaks. I wanted fire for the big transition, but the Budokan has strict restrictions on gunpowder, so it became impossible.
—-Yeah, if you did pyrotechnics it could have been problematic…
Mana : It's just that I really like those, though. (laughs)
—- Do you have any regrets ?
Mana : I have no specific regrets. I feel that I did the best I could in a short period of time. I do have some stuff that stayed with me…
—- The last petals of roses ?
Mana : Yes, that is what marked me the most. We were supposed to be covered in roses with all the fans. Also, we received many ideas from the members for the stage, but many of them did not come to fruition. For example, one of the members would go into a coffin and fall into the “basement”. We didn’t want to risk it (laughs).
—-And whose idea was this ?
Mana : A very physical type guy (laughs)
—- Yu~ki ??!
Mana : Yeah. I don't know if we would’ve used stuntmen or not for that (laughs). There was also talk of using a sword. Blood would spurt out from the tip of the sword and stuff.
—- Like, stabbing ?
Mana : I don't know about that. There was no story, it was just that. (laughs) I had a plan to have the whole coffin fall down, and I also had a plan to have Klaha-kun hanged in midair…Then like, go in all directions (laughs) And then to have a girl in the coffin covered in thorns and blood everywhere too (laughs)
—-Everyone has quite cruel storylines (Laughs) Blood splatter and all…
Mana : Now that you say it… (Laughs) Like, the white dress of the girl becoming fully red, and stuff…
—- I guess I can see that.
Mana : We almost made it happen. The monks would go down to the audience and kidnap a little girl. Blood spurts out from the girl, who turns bright red, and she is carried away. Mr. Asano was trying to do it for real. There is such a thing as "disappearing bloodstains”. There is a special ink that disappears in a short time, and I thought it would be a good idea to use it (laughs)... I was thinking of implementing such an idea until the final stage.
—- Did you have other insane ideas like that ?
Mana : (I've said it before but) I think it would be about flying from the bell tower into the darkness. I think it would be beautiful if we could have done that, but it's a lot of work to just say "let's fly" (laughs).
—- And what about you, would you fly yourself ?
Mana : If necessary I would.. But in my case, I wear a lot of skirts, so it's not easy… (Laughs) As with all my works, I always think about what I want to convey or show the most this time. At the beginning, it is difficult to see the image in my mind, but as the days go by, it becomes more coherent, and the way of expression changes for the better. It often happens that what I initially envisioned is no longer necessary, and sometimes, some stuff suddenly becomes necessary.
—- For example, did anything suddenly become necessary this time ?
Mana : In the second part, a whip, for example. Then we needed a song too (laughs)
—- Really ?!
Mana : There was a lot. “Baptism of Roses”, for example. When we were rehearsing, everyone was dancing, but I was working on a song in the corner. I hated it because it was so distracting (laughs) The noise cello and the song when the sacrificial girl comes out and sparks fly. It was really necessary for the story. The music was necessary for the storyline. That’s how you get scarred with the rose. So she is baptized. I was troubled as I wrote the song.
—- How do you usually make songs ?
Mana : I concentrate and create an image in my mind. I had to work alone to create the sound, otherwise it’s difficult. At that time, I had to dance as well, so I was working with headphones on my trip from home and back from the studio.
—- Do you make them with guitars ?
Mana : Not really, no. I mostly use a keyboard. I don’t use the guitar much for song composition.
—- So you first make the main sounds…
Mana : And then I pile on the necessary sounds.
—- Bass, Guitar, drums, vocals are also your work ?
Mana : I make everything by typing it in. If you play together in the studio, you cannot hear the details of the music. In a band, we sometimes play together on the beat like “5, 6, 7, 8…”, but when I think about the detailed harmony and balance of the notes in detail, I can hear it better if I create the music by inputting it in (*on keyboard/computer at home). I calculate all the sounds, including the bass. The singing line also has to be combined with the background, so I make it by putting it in advance. ...I sing a lot when I make a song, actually. It's no good if you don't feel good singing it yourself. It makes no sense to just mechanically lay out the scale, so I make the music as I sing it. I have to find the melody that best fits the song and touches my heart, so I search for the line that touches my heart as I sing. I'm not a vocalist by profession, so I don't really sing in a proper way but…. I'm singing passionately in my own way (laughs). When I create an image, I may be quite euphoric. No one has ever heard me sing that though. (laughs) It's an eternal secret.
—- I would love to hear it though.
Mana : Also, "Bara no Souretsu" the original of this song was actually created by Kami. I found it among the songs Kami had written before the release of "Shinwa". As soon as I heard it, I was reminded of the stage image of the Cathedral of Roses, and the song overlapped with it to an odd degree. As the stage plan became more and more concrete, we all agreed that this song was perfect for the second act, which takes us from the first act to the world of emptiness. Yu~ki took over Kami's original song and did most of the arranging. While retaining the flavor of the original song, we made it into a large piece of music that lasts more than 10 minutes. I think it was a great song that touched me immensely.
—- That is truly a "secret story".... Going back to the stage, you put the stage together on the day of the show, right? When did you start to make the detailed parts?
Mana : For the small things, it was the day of the event. The bell of the bell tower was done just in time the day of the performance. Also, two or three days before the performance, we would have a rehearsal called a "rehearsal of rehearsal," but even there, the set was not ready yet. There were a lot of things that were missing. There was also a lack of lighting and stuff.
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Mana : I almost didn’t sleep. About 3 hours every night or so.
—- You really hold up well, eh…
Mana : It's a mentality. It's all in the mind. So you can sleep for 3 hours and think, "Ah, I slept for 8 hours” and then it’s fine (laughs). You have to train your mind. It is a battle against yourself.
—- As an editor, it’s a sobering thought (laughs)
Mana : If I didn't think so, it's not like I would have had the time to sleep anyways (laughs). As expected of this set. It's an unthinkable set. The set of the cathedral is an insane thing to make in that amount of time. Even the set builders were desperate. I think they did a great job in such a short time. I think the people working around the stage probably didn't sleep much more than we did. Every time I saw Mr. Asano and the others, they had puffy eyes…
—- What was your impression once you saw the completed set of “Bara no Seidou” ?
Mana : When I saw the set at the last rehearsal, it was so big that I thought, "I have never seen such a big set!” It was so huge that it had to be a venue tall enough to fit the stage or it wouldn’t have worked. So, even if we brought it to the NK Hall, it would not fit on the normal "NK Hall stage," so we built the set using the entire space right up by the side arena seats. The bell tower and the like would not fit vertically. So the moment you enter the NK Hall, you see a literal cathedral was built there (laughs).
—- In the last part, you go to the top balcony of the cathedral. How did you do that?
Mana : The back of the cathedral was like a jungle gym, and we went up the stairs one by one. It was like a construction site, with steel frames all over the place (laughs). It was amazing that they were able to build this in one night, it was like building a 20 meter, 10 story building. It was the first ever set of this height at the Budokan.
—- Right. Weren’t you scared when going up there ?
Mana : I wasn't too scared, strangely enough. Yes, there were scary parts in the high places, but for some reason I didn't feel so scared at the rose window. I was most scared on the back stairs to the rose window. Especially because I had a long skirt, I was afraid I might get caught in it. (laughs)
—- I'm so glad you were safe. Where is your favorite place in that stage?
Mana : The first arch in the center of the building is very memorable for me. I appeared from there and went out into the Budokan space. It was the place that moved me the most.
—-The scene of KIaha and the woman standing on the bell tower is also memorable.
Mana : I didn't stand there myself. I wanted to though (laughs). For the performance it ended up not being necessary, but I wanted to go and stand various places, you know.
—- Yeah, but then this whole stage was built to only last two days, too, which is sad…
Mana : There is a kind of aesthetics of the moment. What you see at that moment shines brightly, doesn't it? It is because of the short period of time that the feelings that are etched in our hearts become stronger.
—-Did you wish your time on stage could last longer?
Mana : I do yes. That space is where I can express myself the most.
—- This time, what was the best moment at budokan ?
Mana : I think it was the beginning. Before going out on stage, the audience cheers when the lights go down, right ? That moment is the most moving. On the first day, it was the moment when the instrumental music in the venue stopped and the bells started to ring. You can't see everyone, but you can hear their voices. You can't see them, but you can hear their voices saying “The moment I was waiting for !”
—- How did you feel when you lined up in front of the rose window for the last time?
Mana : I was very sad to say goodbye. When the first day is over, it doesn't feel like it's completely over because there is still the second day, but on the second day, I feel a sense of loneliness that it's really over. The first part of a tour is fun, but in the second half, when there are only a few more tours to go, I feel really sad. The end comes in the blink of an eye.
—- When did you fall in love with the attractiveness of the stage ?
Mana : Come to think of it… (laughs), I felt differently now from when I did my first live concert. I felt like you could see “I was really working hard” at that time. Now I can see the result of what I want to say, what I want to express, and I can feel the moment when the audience is linked to what I want to show them. Before, there was an atmosphere of "What is this?” At that time, I was making a great effort to have everyone understand what Malice Mizer was all about. Now, I feel that the audience understands what Malice Mizer is to some extent, and they come to the show knowing that, so I really feel like we are in sync with each other.
—- From the stage, can you see the audience ?
Mana : I can. I can't distinguish faces that well, though (laughs), but I have good eyesight, so when I move to the edge of the stage, everyone waves to me. I can see all the way to the end of the audience.
—- Of course, I can assume you can also hear the chants of “Mana Sama ! ~ <3 “
Mana : I can. But the cheering for Közi is probably louder (laughs). Everyone is screaming so loud like “Kööö—ziiii !!” (laughs). So I can hear them very well. (laughs)
—-If you were a fan, from where would you like to see the stage?
Mana : For the Budokan this time, since it was a two-day event, I would prefer to be in the arena (floor) on the first day, where I could feel the atmosphere and presence in front of me up close, and in the middle of the second floor seats on the second day. I would like to take a step back and see the whole scene in detail. But in the end, I will never be able to see it by myself.... This is a shocking thing, lol.
— So in situations like this, would you rather be a fan ?
Mana : In my case, I think I’d be a big fan.
—- A fan of who ? (in the band)
Mana : I can't say, right... (laughs) But if there was a band like this, I would like them for sure. But as I’m saying this myself…. I just want to enjoy it, objectively.
—- If you were a 16 year old girl, who would be your favorite member ?
Mana : I really can’t say that (laughs)
—- Would you like to go back to the “Cathedral of Roses” ?
Mana : It was fun, but my mind is already on the next creation. Every day I put all my energy into the next song. I believe that there are many people who share the same sense of what I want to express, so I would like to share the same worldview and create the world for us.
~ to Part 2, with the stage creators ~
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